Speech by Mark Phillips and Cathy O'Brien

Transcription:
Questions and Answers
Mind Control
A Presentation  to Justice Pro Se
by Mark Phillips and Cathy O'Brien
June 4, 1996
Livonia Civic Center Library, Livonia Michigan

Speaker as noted.

Mark Phillips:
(Lost several seconds - responding to question about why they won't take any verbal questions, only written ones.) ... like yourselves.  We've been doing a lot of work with the mental health folks.  Therapists are known as "rapists" and mental health is known as "mental hell" and I learned real quick around doctors, you don't allow them to ask verbal questions, because they get in heated arguments and (unintelligible.)

Cathy O'Brien:
Verbalizing goes into the emotions, and by writing, it certainly keeps it logical, and logical is the key for us all to deal with this psychological warfare tactic.

Mark Phillips:
Question: Is there a Masonic connection to this sexual abuse?

Quite frankly, all secret societies are involved or infiltrated in some way.  I know a lot of Masons that are as surprised and as shocked as you are to learn about this.  But yes, Cathy was abused in some Masonic halls, and I'm sure, by the names I checked and the names that some of our friends within the FBI checked that not all of them were Masons that were in there that were in fact sexually abusing Cathy.  So I guess you could say Masons are involved, but it is not a Masonic issue so much as it is a criminal issue.

Question: What role does NLP play in mind control?

I wish every child and every adult in this country understood Neuro Linguistic Programming.  Neuro Linguistics is the language of the unconscious, and until you understand it, you can become a victim of it.  Not in absolute robotic mind control, but you may find yourself impulse buying in the grocery store, or you may find yourself falling victim to a very clever automobile ad or perfume ad or, I don't think you'd call it the military, but the military uses NLP and subliminal (unintelligible) heavily in their marketing campaigns to recruit.

Question: Is NLP comprehensive in Colorado and Ohio and involved in this in any way?

No.  NLP, I believe, should be taught to everybody because if you understand something, it is not nearly as dangerous, and NLP is the language of our unconscious.

Question: How does the HAARP project play into mind control of the masses?

The Soviets were the first to developed this type of technology.  It is based on Nicola Tesla's work, and it is tapping into the Van Allen belt, among other things.  This book called, "Angels Don't Play This HAARP," by Doctor Nick Begich out of Anchorage Alaska, and it is one of the most comprehensive.  His father was a Senator of Alaska, and along with the Senator from Louisiana (unintelligible), neither one of them have ever been found.  Their plane went down a few years back and (unintelligible.)  But Nick, his son, went on to become a doctor, and has written a wonderful book exposing this.  Haarp, among other things, is a behavior modification device.  It is a mind control device.  Among other things, it is wreaking havoc, I believe, on our crops and certainly our weather pattern.  But you need to get his book and read about that.

Question: Are you on the World Wide Web?

Yes.  We are.

Question: If yes, do you have an internet address to give out?

Oh, I feel awful.  Yes, I do have an address, and if you'll write us, we'll give it to you.  And you can now hear us talking, do all kind of things on this particular web site, (unintelligible.)  There's one of them that went into operation just last Friday which is, um, I'm really illiterate when it comes to the Web and to the net, and we've had people, supporters, putting us on there.  But we have an address: PO Box 158352, Nashville, Tennessee, 37215, it is in our book.  If you write to us, we will immediately get back and give you that internet number.

We want to get as many questions as we possibly can.

Question: What are you going to say about the Philadelphia Experiment and Montauk?

Ok.  First of all, for those of you who don't understand about Montauk, there are a number of people that are going around the countryside stating that we've been involved in all sorts of things involving aliens and this sort of thing.  I'm not saying that there's not aliens, I'm not saying that some of our problems couldn't be alien related.  All of it seems alien to me, but in my experience and all of the experience of those that I know in the various intelligence communities, no one has coughed up the information that this is aliens behind this stuff.  And I'd like to understand, for you all to understand what I understand is the bad guys go to a whole lot of trouble to convince us it's aliens, and that ought to tell you something right there.

But the Montauk Project is very simple.  Montauk is out on Long Island, New York.  It is at the very tip of what was a super-secret military installation, most of which was underground, which was using sea water as an antenna to monitor the soviet submarines that were based out of Norway.  Now this project was so super-secret, like many other military operations, they put everybody in there under mind control.  They used multi-generational victims of mind control, or I should say incest, and they recruited them into the military, and there's lots of them in there, and by the way, if you look into the backgrounds, so many of the people who walk into the McDonalds or the Burger King and open up a Mak 10 or an Uzi on a bunch of little children, maybe those people were programmed to go in there and do that, but the bottom line is look at their backgrounds.  They all came out of the military and they all came from a sexual abuse based family, and they were all Dissociative Identity Disorder.  That doesn't mean all DIDs are dangerous.  It means that DIDs are manipulated and I believe this is what happened.

But the Montauk project, there's a lot of wild tales about it.  But the truth of the matter is, those wild tales, I happen to have the luxury of knowing two of the psychological warfare agents, if you want to call them that.  I call them "officers," that actually put together some of the information that was released to the populace through various newspapers, through various radio programs, through various individuals, who by the way will fully tell you they were victims of it, and these victims are standing there talking about some claims that go well beyond the realm of believability, like invisibility and time warping and all this sort of thing, when in fact, if our government could do that, then we ain't really here.  But Montauk, all it is is a cover for what really happened, and the government has done a remarkable job in coverup before.

The Philadelphia experiment, where they were testing paint on a ship, and they were testing some electronics, some electromagnetic compressed, compressed electromagnetic pulse beams, they wound up frying the brains of the few people that were on board a ship in a Philadelphia harbor, and so they wound up saying that they made the ship invisible and the people came back and they were sticking out of the hull and all this kind of nonsense.  Don't you just imagine that George Bush would be right behind me, kicking my derriere, if in fact these people could be invisible?  Do you think that I'd be out here doing this if these folks could be invisible?  Well heck, it doesn't make any sense.  The bottom line is the places we hear this information, if we track it, the information you are hearing tonight on MK Ultra, every bit of it, we even gave you a road map in the back of the book to look into it on a credible basis.  Go to your public library.  Go to your medical library.  Go see your psychiatrist, God help you if you got one.  But see him and ask him about DID or MPD.  Ask him about the fact that in 1980 there were 200 cases, and in 1990 there were a quarter million, and by 1995 two and a half million, and this represents a fraction of what is out there.

Question: Where can you get information on NLP?

Oh, this is tacky.  Buy the book.  It's right in the back.

Question: Does the Gospel play a role in your life?

I want to tell you all something right here and now.  Rich Strawcutter is a good example.  He didn't even ask me.  He knows better.  But I had a fellow come up to me yesterday, or the day before yesterday, and he got me right in the face and he said, "Are you a Christian?"  And I looked right back at him and said, "It takes one to know one."  We're supposed to be Christian, not just tell folks we are.  Its like saying, "Are you a member of my little club?"

Question: (I can't begin to answer this.) Please explain the difference in mind control as per Saint Ignatius (unintelligible.)  I'm sorry.  I can't do it.

Cathy O'Brien:
Contrasted to CIA adaption of it.  It was not meant to be used for evil purposes.  It is my understanding too that it was not meant to be used for evil purposes, and I don't know that that has anything to do with a certain faction of the Jesuits using mind control information.  But I have heard from some people high up in the Catholic Church since the release of this information, very supportive information, about how the Vatican II was what they claim that I was exposed to, that there was an enormous change within the church when the corrupt faction did take over certain influences within the church.  This doesn't mean that they are in control of the church.  Absolutely not.  There's a good many Catholics who are disgusted with the way that the children are abused, used in the church, and there is an enormous effort going on toward the church to be restored to its original intent.

Mark Phillips:
Question: Is this 200 mile copper cable in the Michigan Upper Peninsula about MK Ultra?

I don't know, but there's millions of miles of copper cable all over this country.  I really don't know about that particular one but I think Michigan somehow plays a part in this HAARP thing, I'm not sure..  Please don't hold all of our credibility based on that statement.  I usually don't comment on it.
Question: This is one of my favorite questions, and I'm hiding behind this thing, so if there's any Scientologists out there, don't get mad at me, because I'm going to say some nice things and I'm going to say some honest things.  The Church of Scientology: Do you know anything about the Church of Scientology?

Yes I do.

Question: They have thousands of churches (unintelligible) in all the magazines and they're talking about global expansion and group unification and they all wear military uniforms when they dress up.

Well, they dress up in those sailor suits.

Question: Is this the New World Order church?

No.

Question: NLP Mind Control?

Yes.  The Church of Scientology was founded by a, he was a naval intelligence officer who became familiar with all this information back in the late 40s like everybody else did, and he got so excited about it, he was a very brilliant man, matter of fact, he went on to become a tremendously popular science fiction writer, he wrote a book called "Dianetics."  Actually, he call it "Bible."  Well, he is dead now.  Well, his people say he is still alive.  But the fact is L. Ron Hubbard is a genius, and he developed what I consider one of the greatest potential mental self help books that I've ever seen in my life, except for one little thing.  Listen.  When anybody tells you that they're going to change the language of anything, in other words, when you take, and you say, "This is a kitty cat, but from now on you gonna call it a dog," then there is something wrong with this picture.  Go along with the established protocol with whatever that thing was called originally and you're going to stay safe.  All he did was just make up his own language, and that's how cult churches work.  They take the Gospel and they turn it around and they rename everything and they set up their own languages and all of a sudden you go, "Uh."  Well that's what happened with the Church of Scientology.  They've attracted a lot of real rich folks, because, let me tell you something.  A lot of survivors of this stuff are not dirt poor.  They are entertainers, and they got lots and lots and lots of money that the IRS and their handlers haven't taken away from them yet, and they wind up, and if you think about it, who would be a better actor than an MPD?  Somebody asked about Michael Jackson.  I don't know about Michael Jackson, but I can tell you that I saw Elizabeth Taylor's bodyguard in charge of all her security get on international television, and it is easy to get a copy of this, international television, and she got on every access cable group I think in America, or the cable network and at various times of the day and night you could see the show.  He talked about the fact that after Ms. Taylor rescued this young man and carried him to England, and then was going to, had him in front of some doctors, his "handlers" came and absolutely kidnaped him away from these doctors and carried him back to this country, and then this child molestation case was settled.  Now there are lots of rumors abounding about Michael Jackson, but I don't have any proof and I'm not going to stand up here, cause I sure don't want to be sued by that guy.

Question: Is there anybody running for president who is honest and not involved in all this?

Yeah.  There is.  There really is.  ("Who?" from the audience.)  That's the problem.  The problem is these people don't, it's too late in the game, and right now, the bad guys are in control of all of this, whether you know it or not.  And you can accept it.  We are the underbelly.  We are ripping them apart.  So it doesn't matter who goes in.  The president is not going to make the difference.  It's the rest of the government.  It's that other handful of criminals that, it's not just our government, it's the whole world.  Just a handful of criminals running our government and the whole world, and I don't even know who's at the top, and I don't know who would be the perfect candidate for president.  I wouldn't have the job no matter what you promised me!  I can't imagine anybody taking that job right now, because you've got a criminal element that's in charge of them!

Cathy O'Brien:
When the people lead, the leaders follow.  It's up to all of us to take back the...

Mark Phillips:
Yeah, we're doing it.  Whether you all realize it or not, we're actually accomplishing the impossible.  All of us.

Question: Where can you be contacted?

Oh please.  Look in the second page of our book.  It gives our address.

Question: Do you know where you will be speaking next?

I'm just grateful to be speaking anywhere!
 

(Shouted from audience: "How come you're still alive?")

You gotta read the book!  I'm not gonna take any questions from you.  You just gotta read the book.

Question: Usually I thought the CIA takes the book from the authors?

Uh huh.  That's exactly why I self published it.  Because I had more publishers running into us, with all of this wild money that would have ended all my problems, and some people said, "You're a criminal!  You could take this money and put Kelly back together."  I said, "Let me tell you something, pal. $200,000, and that was the top offer, wouldn't even begin to put Kelly back together.  All that's going to do is get me killed, because then I lose control of this information for 17 years and I'm done."  I said, "No thank you.  I'm going to open my own dang publishing company."

I appreciate you all asking about that New World Order Church on, oh, here's another one.

Question: I'd heard John Lennon's assassin was inducted into CIA mind control?

Yes.

Question: And in Algiers and was manipulated to murder Lennon.  Have you heard anything about this, or anything similar?

Yes.  There's a fellow name of Walter Bower, and I won't give your name up, but if you'd contact me, and you know my address, if you'd contact me, I'll give you the information and the background research from two CIA officers and a couple of FBI guys, and they (unintelligible) to you like that.

(From the audience: "Excuse me, Mark.  There were two other questions on there and the first one on the yellow piece of paper, that was my most important one.  I had one, two, three on the..")

Ok.  Ok.  Oh.  Bear with me.  Oh, yes.

Question: Doctors, drugs, surgery and medical tests are killing people.

You better believe it.  Listen.  I wouldn't go to a doctor if you all ran over me with a truck.  Unless I could find, I know some that I trust, who even know how to use a knife.

Question: Also processed foods, NutraSweet and sugar?

Uh, stop.  Stop.  Plain old processed, or processed sugar is bad for you.  But unprocessed sugar, that's what the bad guys want you to think.  Because let me tell you, the first thing we take somebody off of is sugar.  The first thing, in order to maintain mind control on somebody and lower their blood sugar, you take them off of sugar, and you put them on NutraSweet.  I want to tell you all, right here and now, NutraSweet is harder to get somebody off of than heroin.

Cathy O'Brien:
I know.  I went through it.  It is absolutely terrible, because NutraSweet actually does something where a person becomes more suggestible and more receptive and not so clear thinking on their own, and that was something that they wanted, so I was forced to consume copious quantities of the NutraSweet.  It was horrible getting off of it.

Mark Phillips:
Question: I heard there's a pill the CIA can give somebody that would cause him to have a heart attack.

There's over 1100 of them, and that was in 1967.  You don't have to give them a pill.  You can program it in.  She had death programs, and I almost lost her.  Most of the ones like Cathy are not vocal because they are dead.  Because once that programming it tripped over, and it's in there, you know it right up front, because, and I'm not going to get into those issues right in front of this audience, because they are clinical and somebody could get hurt in here.  But there are certain indicators up front that let you know they are there.  And I haven't, not that I've seen anybody in Michigan that's been programmed with a death program, but I don't know.

Question: Can this happen to anybody?

Well, no, it can't.  But yes, it can.  They can spray you in the face with Hypogaine and you gonna be nuttier than a fruitcake for the rest of your natural life, until you take the antidote, and if you wait more than 44 days, you can forget the antidote.  Hypogaine comes from a root or a vine in South America.  A lawyer just got hit with it down in Texas the other day because he's a constitutional lawyer, and now he's just wackier than anything you ever heard of.  He thinks that things are molesting him.  He absolutely thinks he's got things crawling all over him.  And we got him on the antidote, and couldn't keep him on there because it's against his rights, the court said, even though he was improving.  So it's very sad.

There's a million things they can give you against your knowledge.  That's just too broad to even cover.

Question: If one never goes to bars, and is 100% of what goes on around him, how could you market, oh.  Oh.  I see what you're saying.  In other words, how could you fall victim to it?

I'll tell you how you can fall victim to it.  They can rub it on the doorknob.   But listen.  You go and get paranoid, and thinking they are going to come and get you, you're just as good as dead, and you might as well just go off somewhere and you're not going to be any good to anybody.  Listen.  Fear is your worst victim, or your worst victimizer, I should say.  If Cathy and I walked around paranoid about what we are doing, we wouldn't be here.  I would be in a looney bin somewhere, and she would have suicided.  But that's not going to happen.

Cathy O'Brien:
Incidently, neither one of us is suicidal.

Mark Phillips:
Oh, please!  Neither one of us is suicidal.  (Unintelligible.)

Question: (Unintelligible) this book without being stopped, they would have (unintelligible) and the way the law doesn't allow government employees to (unintelligible.)

I was not a government employee.  I was paid by Ampex Corporation.  And since I was a civilian employee, and I was not an officer, I was an operative, it makes a big distinction there.  For one thing, there are things that I can't talk about, and there's no sense of me telling you about a key, down in the Florida Keys, that isn't on the map, called Inner(?) Key.  Oh no.  I can't talk about that.  (Unintelligible) down there.  (Unintelligible) But I can't tell you about that key.

Listen, these people are smart, they're sociopaths, and they're just plumb dangerous, and I'm not going to make light of it.  And I'm going to tell you right now that there are things you can do to protect yourself.  First thing you better do though, and I'm not making light of this, first thing you might better do is make sure that your relationship with yourself and your God is intact, because (unintelligible) matters.

Question: Do you know how someone could find out if they were a victim of MK Ultra experiment?

Yes.  Assured.  As a matter of fact we get a number of requests for this, and I have a standard test I send them out, and it is very revealing.  It tells me everything I need to know, and if you want to write to me, I wish somebody would give me a break though, and put two dollars in an envelope, a copy, making a copy, it takes time to do it, but I'll do it.  I'll send it to you, you can fill it out, I'll even show you how to fill it out, it's real simple, and mail it back.

Question: Would you all say that Jim Jones was an experiment in MK Ultra?

I'll just tell you this.  We have copies of the CIA's deed for the land in French Guyana, and Jonestown.  They even bought the property for Jim Jones.  It wasn't intended (unintelligible) experiment, it was for biologicals.  And there's two more encampments still there that you all don't know about.  Contact the Guyanese government, and ask them what's going on down there, next to Jonestown, within 100, 120 miles.  They still got two encampments, and they're still testing.  The Mossad is down there, the French are down there, MI6(?) is down there, and the CIA is down there.

Cathy O'Brien:
Question: Kelly's 16 years old now.  Will you be able to free her at the age of 18 years old, and where is Kelly being held?

Mark Phillips:
What a good question.

Cathy O'Brien:
Yeah, excellent.  Unfortunately, Kelly must be deprogrammed in order that she not be a threat to herself or to society.  She wants to be a contributing factor to society, and she wants to be able to live as she knows she is inside.  She wants to be able to express soul, free of any mind manipulation and mind control.  Until she is deprogrammed, she is still accessible, and therefore is a threat to herself and to society, because she was genetically born and raised and mind control programmed to go into espionage, so she has the programming that is accessible, and she lives in fear of someone accessing that program before she gets some help.  So we've got to continue to increase public outcry to this point where the State of Tennessee and the government must release the information on her victimization and the technology in order that Kelly and so many others like her can be helped.  So please, I implore all of you and encourage all of you, to write Kelly with letters of kindness and support, through the address in the book, and also please write the state of Tennessee and demand to know what national security has to do with Kelly.

Mark Phillip:
Question: Many authors offer riveting tales in published books.  Can you dispel the rumor that you have simply authored a fantastic tale through the vulnerable mind, (then they scratched all that out,) of a DID patient, I.E. Cathy O'Brien.

Yes.  I sure can.  If you will buy the book and look at the evidences that support it, and please, please follow through with what I am talking about, and remember one thing in your head.  I am not insane, I (unintelligible) mental illness, and I left a lot of money in the bank to insure the fact to insure the fact that the CIA would think I was crazy.  Now anybody in this room can go back and check me out, I've given you enough information, I've given you my date of birth, my place of birth.  Any of you in here can get in there and start checking.  So the point is people don't do these things that Cathy and I are doing, for one thing, how many of you, would you please hold your hand up, would like to be up here doing what I am doing, and make yourselves a cool 2500 bucks a year.  No takers.  Well, I can make you a published offer.  Get me a manuscript.  I've got my own publishing company now.

Question: Do you feel Bill Clinton himself could be manipulated by MK Ultra?

Boy, I'll tell you, there's a lot of conjecture on that one.  I don't think so.  I don't think (unintelligible.)

We've run out of time.  We've gotta be out of here by eleven o'clock, and I've only go a couple of minutes, and every one of your questions is important.  But we're here strictly by the grace of God, Rich Strawcutter and Dominic Vincintini, and our book sales.  And any of you that would buy a book from us, I would appreciate it, and this is, perhaps your question, you can mail it to us if you don't mind waiting a while, I wish I had the names here, but that would make somebody paranoid.  And by the way, that's how we get to these speaking engagements are people in the audience who say, "Hey, my church would like to sponsor you," or "My group in such and such would like to sponsor you in."  We don't charge to come in.  We only ask that you cover our basic expenses, if it is over 500 miles, cover our air fare.  In this case, there is no air fare because we had a whole tour planned.  The only thing that we ask is that we are able to sell our book, and be able to get to the people.  Now sometimes we get help from donations and that sort of thing.  God knows I'm not insane, we accept them.  But we have to sell our book in order to survive and in order for you to get the information and share this information and to write us and to write Kelly and to write the state of Tennessee and be doers like I know you are, you gotta get the book.  It's only fifteen bucks, it's gonna cost you eighteen if you write to me, and I got fourteen minutes.  Thank you very much.

I have tried to be absolutely faithful in the transcription of this presentation.  The grammatical errors are in the original.  When there was any doubt as to what was said, I wrote (unintelligible) rather than risk a misinterpretation of meaning because of a transcription error.  The only modifications were the expansion of a few spoken contractions, such as "it's" and "they're".

Observations and further contact with Mark Phillips and Cathy O'Brien:

After purchasing and reading their book, "Trance Formation of America," I was put in contact with Mark Phillips by a mutual friend, who sat in on the conference call.  I found Mark Phillips friendly and willing to answer all of my questions at that time.  I asked him to send me the original document package that he refers to in his book:
 

"For five consecutive years beginning in 1988, we personally presented testimony and supporting irrefutable evidences to all applicable county, state and federal law enforcement agencies.  This same testimony was hand delivered by a sympathetic U.S. Congressman from Tennessee, Bob Clement, to all concerned Washington, D.C. Government agencies, and to certain members of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate."  --page 225.

This is followed by an extensive list of individuals and organizations which they say are a mere fraction of those information was provided to.

The package I received contained the following:
 

• Alabama Repeals Goals 2000, HJR 353
• Press release - U.S. Government and Mind Control, Trance Formation of America, an article from the "Free American."
• A brief biography of Cathy O'Brien
• A brief biography of Mark Phillips
• Certification from the International Society for the Study of Disassociation, granted to Mark Phillips in October, 1994
• Photograph of Kelly and a forwarding address
• Freedom of the Mind, U.S and International Human Rights Issue, from Human Rights Law Journal,  Vol. 3, 1982
• Order form and promotional text for "Trance Formation of America"
• Order form for videos and documentation
• Jonestown, CIA, Assassinations, Drugs and Mind Control, an article by    John Judge
• Bohemian Grove membership roster
• Bohemian Grove camp list
• Mind control references list - 18 pages of reference materials
• Bohemian Grove, an article from Spy Magazine, November 1989
• Bohemian Grove, an article from the Santa Rosa Sun, July 8-21, 1993
• Bohemian Grove map and description, from the Bohemian Grove Action    Network
• Henry Kissinger, the Bohemian Grove and Central America, an article by    Kerry Richardson
• Bohemian Grove Care Rite, source unknown
• Silkwood, Kerr McGee, Gulf Oil Corruption, source unknown
• The Bohemian Grove Connection, from Direct Action/Livermore Action Group
• Henry Kissinger, Bohemian Grove and Central America, Mandalay Camp    Connections, an article from Kerry Richardson's Journal #3, March,    1984
• Traditional Elders Circle Communique #8, June 2-5, 1983, Mohawk Nation
• The Bohemian Grove and the Nuclear Weapons Industry: Some Connections, an article from Kerry Richardson's Report #4, September 1987
• Bohemian Grove Action Network Mission Statement
• A Closer Look At The Top Secret Project Monarch, an article by Mark    Phillips
• A Walk On The Dark Side - A Serious Look at Mind Control, an article by Steven R. Elswick,
• After Hours, April/May/June, 1995, International Teslar Society
• Mind Control and the American Government, an article by Martin Cannon, Lobster 23, June, 1992 (From the U.K.)
• U.S. Army Intelligence Mind Control Experiments, an article by Armen       Victorian, Lobster 23, June, 1992
• A Subliminal Dr. Strangelove, an article by Dorinda Elliott and John    Barry, Newsweek, August 23, 1994
• Somatically Evoked Magnetic Fields of the Human Brain, an article by D.    Brenner, J. Lipton, L. Kaufman and S.J. Williamson, Science, Vol.    199, 5 January 1978, pp81-83
• Mind Control, an article by Larry Collins, Playboy, January 1990
• Hearing Voices - The Hidden History of CIA and Pentagon Electromagnetic    Mind Control Experiments on Involuntary Human Subjects, an article by Alex Constantine, Prevailing Winds, 1994
• Journey Into Madness, a book review from Freedom Magazine
• An autographed copy of "Trance Formation of America", by Cathy O'Brien with Mark Phillips

A careful look at this material will reveal nothing whatsoever supporting their specific claims as to who they are or what they have been through, although the package made very interesting reading and provided me with many leads for subsequent research.

I was then told that Mark and Cathy would be in my area on June 4, and that they were willing to spend "as much time with me as I needed."  I prepared a series of interview questions, along with some specific documentation requests.  I also prepared the document requests in written form, in case something precluded us from meeting as we had planned, and so they would have something to take with them.

A trusted friend accompanied me to their presentation on June 4, 1996.  I openly audio taped the presentation along with several others.  The event was also video taped, but I do not know by whom.  I found Mark to be a brilliant speaker and audience handler.  He was entertaining and a pleasure to listen to.  Cathy wasn't so comfortable, but she did well also.  It was interesting to note that she would often lose her place mid-sentence, appear to be "reading the air" for a couple of seconds, then pick up on the next word and continue as if there had been no pause.

The meeting ran longer than expected, and Mark and Cathy were occupied selling their books until we were all thrown out of the building by the janitorial staff.  I waited in the parking lot while they carried on separate conversations for quite a while.

My patience began to wear thin as the hour approached midnight, so I approached Mark to speak to him.  He grabbed the person he was talking to and moved further away from me.  I finally walked up to him and told him I wasn't going to be able to wait any longer, as I had to work the following day.  He expressed regrets and offered to meet me for breakfast, if that would work better.  I decided it wouldn't, handed him my prepared written document requests, and we parted.

During my time in the parking lot with them, I noted that Mark and Cathy were traveling in a new Chrysler Imperial with an Alabama vanity plate which reads, "MONARCH."

Mark called me the following day, assuring me that all of my requests for documentation would be easily fulfilled, and that he would give them prompt attention upon his return to his home.

The documents I specifically requested were medical documents covering diagnosis and treatment of Cathy's physical scars, mutilations and eye damage, legal documents demonstrating their struggles with the courts regarding both Cathy and Kelly, and anything at all he could give me to demonstrate any single aspect or event of Cathy's story while she was still under mind control, since they adamantly claim to be "fully documented."  Again, I was assured all of this was available, that it would be sent to me promptly, and that I would be welcome to share it with anybody I wished, in any way I wished.

After nearly a month of waiting, I received call from Mark telling me that the documentation had finally been assembled and it was on the way.

The second documentation package contained the following:

• A color photograph taken of an eye under a slit lamp, with the note that this showed the damage to Cathy's eye.  I had the image checked out by a certified ophthalmic technician, who said that the image did not seem to show any damage, but that it was a very difficult image to read.
• A subpoena for Mark to appear before a grand jury to testify about allegations that he threatened the President of the United States
• A letter from the U.S. Justice department to Mark Phillips advising him    of the reason for the subpoena.
• A letter from Henry Martin, Mark Phillips' attorney, to Van Vincent, Assistant U.S. Attorney, regarding the above investigation
• A letter from Bob Clement, Representative of Tennessee, to Cathy O'Brien, thanking her for additional information regarding Kelly.
• A letter from Bob Dole to Mark Phillips telling him that his letter had    been referred to Al Gore.
• A letter from Cathy O'Brien to Bob Dole regarding Cathy's and Kelly's    "diligent pursuit of justice".
• A letter from John H. Wright, CIA, informing her that there is nothing available to fill her Privacy Act request for information regarding herself.
• A letter from Frederick D. McClure, Assistant to the President for Legal    Matters, thanking Bob Clement for sharing Mr. Phillips' letter with them.
• A letter from Shirley M. Green, Special Assistant to the President for    Messages and Correspondence, informing Mark Phillips that his letter    to Bush and Thornburg had been received.
• A letter from Bob Clement to Mark Phillips telling him that his    information packages had been delivered to his office.
• Photograph of Kelly, with forwarding address
• Letter from James Sasser to Cathy O'Brien confirming receipt of hers and    Mark Phillips' letters and allegations.
• "Victim of the System," by Cathy O'Brien, detailing in time line form      her and Kelly's rescue, and the legal actions attempted by them since that rescue, as well as the institutionalization of Kelly.
• Hand written help request from Kelly to Rep. Ben West of Tennessee.
• Medical document of Richard E. Presley, M.D, and Stephen M. Staggs,    M.D., containing Presley's diagnosis that Kelly had been sexually abused.
• Letter from Clinton B. Lillibridge, M.D. Pediatrician, to Jack Chapman     of the Anchorage Police Department detailing Kelly's physical condition and comments about probable sexual abuse.
• Hand written notes from Kelly detailing molestation by Alex Houston and    Wayne Cox.
• Letter from Cathy O'Brien to "Whom It Should Concern" regarding the foster care of Kelly and her eventual reunion with Wayne Cox, her biological father.
• A 1986 drawing by Kelly depicting a serpent/dragon creature with NASA    written across it.
• Discharge summary of Kelly Cox (O'Brien) from Humana Hospital,    containing diagnoses of Dissociative Disorder, Post Traumatic Stress    Disorder, Bronchial Asthma, Precipitating stress: severe, and Highest level of function: fair.
• Integrated Progress Notes on Kelly Cox from the Valley Institute of Psychiatry/Valley Treatment Center
• A letter written by Cathy O'Brien to "To Whom It May Concern", regarding    hers and Kelly's victimization, molestation and abuse, and those who were involved.
• Cumberland House Medication Sheet on Kelly Cox
• Letter from Cathy O'Brien to Bob Dole again begging for intervention and    assistance for Kelly.
• Hand written letter and picture from Kelly to Cathy talking about    brainwashing of Kelly
• Letter from Richard W. Rucker, Tennessee Claims Commission, to Cathy    O'Brien, asking for additional information
• Two $500 checks from the Treasurer of the State of Tennessee to Cathy    O'Brien
• Interview Assessment of Cathleen O'Brien from Judith B. Kohler, M.S.,    Psychological Examiner, regarding the feasibility of reuniting her with Kelly.
• Outpatient Progress Notes on Cathleen O'Brien regarding TMJ syndrome
• Letter from Mark Phillips to "To Who It May Concern" detailing the lack of answers as far as rehab for trauma base mind control victims.

The documentation is available, but copying it or scanning it all would be a monumental task.  I will honor any specific requests for copies of parts of it, providing I am sent an SASE.  If the copying amounts to more than a few pages, I will have to ask for reimbursement for copying charges.

The tapes are of miserable quality, and further duplication will result in nearly a nearly useless copy.  Therefore, I am not making copies of the tapes available, but I will certainly retain them to substantiate the accuracy of this transcription.  I also have witnesses to all contacts except for the second and third phone conversations with Mr. Phillips.