Cisco Wheeler Interview
interview by Wayne Morris

CKLN 88.1 FM Ryerson Polytechnical University Toronto, Ontario

Mind Control Series
 

Producer/Interviewer Wayne Morris:

Good morning, and welcome to The International Connection. We are in week #40 in our radio series on mind control, and today we begin an interview with Cisco Wheeler, co-author of "The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Mind Controlled Slave" and other books about trauma-based conditioning. Cisco is a mind control victim of one of the Illuminati families. She is a descendant of Ulysses S. Grant and has managed to gain a certain amount of freedom from her family's control. She is currently working with Fritz Springmeier to help other victims of mind control heal. Cisco rarely does interviews, so we are very fortunate to be able to bring you this interview with Cisco Wheeler.

 
I would like to start off by asking you what your background is and how you first became involved in trauma-based conditioning mind control.

Cisco Wheeler:
I was first involved as an infant. My father came from a transgenerational satanic family. My life was planned according to a particular structure, from the beginning, as my father was a programmer for the Illuminati and the U.S. government.

Wayne Morris:
What political/military connections did your family have that you are aware of?

Cisco Wheeler:
We had a very strong political background. My father had political connections; my Great Uncle was General Earl Grant Wheeler, he was a direct descendant of Ulysses Grant. General Earl Wheeler was the head of the American military in the Vietnam War. He was the Joint Chief of Staff so we had a very strong political background. My father was also a Grand Master within the Illuminati. He worked on the west coast during the Vietnam War with his uncle who headed the military, to run drugs into this country to create a drug culture. The purpose of that was to destroy the structure within the family unit. The drug culture was the real purpose behind the Vietnam War. My father was also with the USO shows in the military as he was a musician; he was also involved with the CIA; and he was a 33rd degree Mason. Because of his being a Grand Master within the Illuminati, he was very strongly connected to America's political sturcture. Because of the generational ties within the Illuminati, from the planned time of my conception, I entered into a world that was well structured, and well planned. And as a structured slave within the Illuminati, I too became connected to America's political structure. As a small child I was groomed to sexually service the so-called elite within this political structure.

Wayne Morris:
Are you talking people in the White House?

Cisco Wheeler:
Yes. President Eisenhauer is the first president that I remember. He befriended me as a small child. I would sit on his lap, sang to him, there were sexual gestures back and forth. I was being trained. I entertained governors, mayors, ministers. I was trained in sexual activity there, and I was part of the Illuminati function within the British Royal Family during elite meetings.

Wayne Morris:
How young do you remember when you started being subjected to trauma conditioning ... from birth?

Cisco Wheeler:
I was traumatized in the womb.

Wayne Morris:
How did you first realize that your family was connected with the Illuminati?

Cisco Wheeler:
If you understand multliplicity, you understand there are many layers in the system. Because there are many layers, parts of ourself knew, and had many memories of certain things happening in our life, but the front part of our system that faced the outside world, they had no recall or memory at all that associated them to Illuminati programming or trauma based mind control. So if I speak for the front part of our mind, they knew nothing was wrong at all, outside of knowing they had a very abusive childhood. They didn't really know anything was wrong until my father died. When he died, that freed our mind to be able to retrieve memory, and at that point, they understood something was wrong. They started hearing voices and having flashbacks and having information that was retrieved, that they knew they didn't have a "history" of and they couldn't figure out what happened.

Where did this come from? This isn't the way I think. Why would I be thinking about sexual issues when I have no recall of ever being sexually abused or why do I remember that I was in a certain place but yet I don't remember ... it's all second hand. Do you understand what I am saying? So, it wasn't until after my father died that they started breaking down the hypnotic walls within the mind that protected me from knowing what happened. Over a period of time, because of memory retrieval and flashbacks, and the trauma it was causing, they became extremely suicidal and they didn't believe in suicide, they sought help. They went into a hospital for nine weeks and started working with a therapist, and after a time period they realized it wasn't normal to want to die when your father died, and we found out there was a real deep problem.

Wayne Morris:
Did these initial therapists that you worked with have knowledge of mind control or trauma based conditioning techniques at the time?

Cisco Wheeler:
Very vaguely. We were one of the first multiples diagnosed in this area and we basically worked with our therapist and she learned. She made a commitment to us, and what she didn't know, she found out.

Wayne Morris:
Your father was your main handler and programmer, and how old were you when he died?

Cisco Wheeler:
My father was my handler and programmer, and I was forty years old when he died.

Wayne Morris:
How did you manage to break free of your family's control of your life at that time? Did other people step in ...

Cisco Wheeler:
When the Master dies, generally the slave also dies, but because of our determination to fight the programming and to get to the bottom of what was happening within our mind, we were able to fight the suicide programming. >From there we started a journey into understanding that we were a structured multiple which we didn't even know what that was ... that we had a long road ahead of us, a hard road to travel.

Wayne Morris:
Did you have to travel that alone or did other people help you?

Cisco Wheeler:
No. I had a very strong support team. Several people in my support team were also victims of mind control.

Wayne Morris:
The people that weren't, they had an understanding of the mind control techniques?

Cisco Wheeler:
No. We started this journey basically learning to understand ourselves, listening to ourselves, confronting each other within the system with this is what is happening with you, putting our notes together and realizing 'hey we are getting our memories separately, we are feeling the same way, reacting the same way', taking one step at a time because thirteen years ago, nobody really knew anything about MPD.

Wayne Morris:
Did your father also victimize other people?

Cisco Wheeler:
Most definitely. He was a master programmer.

Wayne Morris:
Did you have brothers and sisters that were affected as well?

Cisco Wheeler:
Not to the degree that I was. I was the firstborn.

Wayne Morris:
Is it because you were the firstborn that you were chosen for this kind of vitimization or were there other reasons?

Cisco Wheeler:
In part. In the late forties the Illuminati wanted to infilitrate the churches because they understood the power of God within the structure of the church, and they had to find a way to infiltrate the church to break down that spiritual strength within the church, the power of the holy spirit that works within the church. They had to find a way to infiltrate that, and they wanted to bring the world into the churches so that the churches wouldn't be so strong spiritually. That was part of my father's job. In order to do that my father married my mother who was not Illuminati, nor was she ritual, but she did have a very strong religious background. She was that perfect example for the world, that perfect wife for the church, to set examples for other young women in the church. When my father married her, that was his way to infiltrate the church, through my mother.

Wayne Morris:
Throughout your father's life, how did he go about infiltrating during this process?

Cisco Wheeler:
By becoming part of the church, by being a minister, by being ordained, by getting into the youth groups, becoming very friendly with the Elders and the Board of Directors within the congregation itself. This was the Pentecostal churches.

Wayne Morris:
You mentioned your father's role in drug trafficking within the Vietnam War. Could you expand on that?

Cisco Wheeler:
When the Vietnam soldiers were killed and they brought their bodies back, drugs were hidden in the cavities in their bodies. My father's responsibility was to get that from the mortician and it would be a controlled substance at that point, and he was the handler of that controlled substance. He wasn't active in Vietnam. He was just the extended hand that was used within our government to make sure the drugs met their destination.

Wayne Morris:
Once the drugs came over into North America, what were your father's connections in terms of the distribution at that point?

Cisco Wheeler:
I do not know. I was not allowed to know that. I didn't see it. I was too young at that time ... well, I wasn't that young, but I was too young to be a part of that.

Wayne Morris:
Do you consider yourself completely free now of the influence from the Illuminati and your former perpetrators?

Cisco Wheeler:
No I do not consider myself completely free from the cult influence. We are continually harassed by external threats. We get a lot of phone calls, we get bullets in our windows, we get run off the road, we get letters, we get people that walk up to us in the grocery store and they threaten us. They let us know in their little way that they know where I am, what I am doing, and what I am up to, and that it's not over until they say it's over. They are calling the shots.

Wayne Morris:
Have they been able to access parts of you that you have not dealt with in terms of healing?

Cisco Wheeler:
In the past they have; at the present time, no. I am very careful on where I am and what I am doing. I am not careless with my time or my energy, and I don't set myself up so that they can access me. I have other people answer my phone. I have other people read my letters. I have other people that walk before to make sure everything is okay before I walk into anything that I can't handle.

Wayne Morris:
What effects has the trauma conditioning that you have undergone throughout your life do you have to deal with currently?

Cisco Wheeler:
I continue to suffer with the trauma based mind control in every aspect of my life. I have to deal with the fact that my father had a beautiful little girl and he didn't want her love as that beautiful little girl that was born to him. I have to deal with the fact that he wanted a little girl but he wanted her to be shattered into a million pieces so he could structure every aspect of my life. And then I have to ask myself what did it take to splinter this 18 month old child into a million pieces? And you deal with questions like that. It is hard for the mind to comprehend what has been done to you because the mind always wants to protect itself to some degree so you take little 'bites' of it. But the mind is always processing material. Then I have to deal with the fact that they planned this - that's what structured is. Structured MPD/DID was planned from the time of my conception and I am afraid that kind of hurts my feelings when I think about it.

Wayne Morris:
They had a definite structure in terms of knowing what they were doing when they were traumatizing you, and what the effects that would bring about ...

Cisco Wheeler:
Exactly. They knew from A to Z what they wanted to do with my life and how they wanted to structure, what they wanted me to be, and what they wanted me to become. That is slavery. I had to deal with the body, soul and spirit because all parts of myself have been raped. I continually have to deal with memories; with spirit issues; issues within me - in my programming; how they dehumanized me; how they shamed me; how they traumatized me to the point that I didn't even know who I was, what I was, where I was going. I didn't even know I was a little girl at some points in my traumatization. They made sure they dehumanized me to such a point I became a kitten within myself. To be a little girl was to be tortured, to be punished, unacceptable. I have to deal with the spiritual issues because I was told God didn't love me, he raped me, I could no longer have my name in the Lamb's Book of Life, my name was taken out of the Book of Life, and then they continued to program me with hypnotically taking my heart from my body, using drugs, so I didn't even know I had a heart. They dehumanized me to the point where there was no place to go except the family. No place to go.

Wayne Morris:
Were there other perpetrators involved in your family, other than your father?

Cisco Wheeler:
Oh definitely. I am trying to think of where I want to start. My primary programmer was Dr. Green, who was Dr. Josef Mengele. My other primary programmer was Dr. Black, who was my father.

Wayne Morris:
When did you realize that Dr. Green was in fact Josef Mengele?

Cisco Wheeler:
I always knew from my internal parts. My deeper parts were programmers and my father was trained by Mengele, he was his #2 man. We followed in my father's footsteps. We were also trained to be a programmer. That was our specialized field.

Wayne Morris:
Did he say or use his name at some points?

Cisco Wheeler:
Yes, he did. As well he went by Dr. Fairchild, Dr. Green.

Wayne Morris:
What's your understanding of Mengele's involvement in mind control across the continent?

Cisco Wheeler:
I am sure that he infiltrated every state, and I know he has worked up in Canada.

Wayne Morris:
What state were you located when he was performing mind control on you?

Cisco Wheeler:
Most of my programming occurred in California and Oregon. In California at China Lake Naval Base; the Presidio north San Francisco; and the Letterman Hospital next to the Presidio military base. In Alcatraz there was programming that went on in the prisons there. And Scotty's Castle in Death Valley in California. Also in Torrence, California. And at the State Mental Hospital in Salem, Oregon and in the big Masonic hospital called Dorenbecker here in Portland.

Wayne Morris:
What time frame would that have been in?

Cisco Wheeler:
1948-9 clear up to the middle 60's.

Wayne Morris:
How did you begin the process of healing yourself into disabling as much as possible the programming that was done to you?

Cisco Wheeler:
By stabilizing myself. By making sure I was in a safe place where I could do my work without being infiltrated. By sincerely making that effort to go towards health above all else. To work diligently on my memories and my programming, and to be a truth-seeker. To find out, no matter what had been done to me, I wanted to know what had been done. If you don't know where you have been, you don't know where you are going. It was very important for me to go towards health, because once I realized what they had done to me and the depths of the programming, I was going to stand by and not say anything, be silent, let it not be spoken ... I was going to beat the programming which has been hear no evil, see no evil, do no evil. I was going to beat that. I was going to tell. That was my determination that helped me fight the trauma of knowing what I had to learn about myself.

Wayne Morris:
The work that you had to go through to accomplish that level of healing - what does that involve in terms of dealing with your memories?

Cisco Wheeler:
I had to face the pain, the torture, face my own fears of the unknown, face the fact that my father didn't love me, face the fact that trauma bonding is not love and no matter what they say as far as in the name of love, there is no love involved in this. I had to look deep inside myself and find that spark of life that was left because they so dehumanize you as they are programming you to be their slave, that for some the light goes out and there is no hope, but for myself I was fortunate. There was some hope and there as a light, and that light enabled me to have the courage and the strength I needed to go towards health.

Wayne Morris:
How did the people around you help you through this?

Cisco Wheeler:
My support team was very helpful. It consisted of three women plus myself. We were all programmed around the same time by the same programmers. My father was a very strong in their lives, because he was their programmer. That tied us together emotionally. All four of us had made the determination that we were going to walk out of this and that we were going to go toward health. We became very bonded, not only from what we knew had ritually happened to us, and through the shared trauma base. We stepped out of that and started building a new type of friendship of trust, lifting each other up, building each other up, being there for each other, having a listening ear, learning how to document our memories, to be there no matter what time of the day it was for the first five years. We all needed each other at any given point. Two of the three ladies have medical degrees, the other is a teacher -- all four of us are free today because we stood together.

In our healing process the first thing we had to acknowledge within ourselves, and we each had to do this separately, is to acknowledge that we are MPD, that we are DID, and that we were generational families of satanism. Yes, we did practice satanism, and yes we were of the Illuminati bloodline, and yes, there is a lot of dirt in our lives, and yes, we don't want to look at it. It was too painful to look at. But there came a time when we wanted to step out of our denial and I think that's the most important thing in the healing process when I look back - we had the courage to look at our life and the reality in which it stood. We were programmed to be a programmer, and that gave us the ability to understand others as well as ourselves, and we could work together within a group, and we did gain a lot of strength from one another. But we also had to call a spade a spade. We couldn't run away from what had happened to us. That was our strength. It gave us the courage we needed to keep fighting.

Once we realized that yes, we were under mind control, and yes, we were slaves for the Illuminati - we didn't like the slavery in which we had been born into. We also didn't like the idea that we never were given a choice as to what happened to us. We wanted to be free agents. We just didn't know how to become a free agent. We had to fight for it. It didn't come easy. The nights were filled with trauma. The days were filled with trauma and pain. The body, soul and spirit is continually in a warfare as it goes towards health. It does not like to release the hidden knowledge of what was done to us, everything was done to us in secret. Because of the programs it didn't want to unravel itself and to do so was very very painful.

Wayne Morris:
Was the ability for you and the other survivors to be able to find a safe place, to be able to undergo this work with others - was this a significant factor in being able to break that control?

Cisco Wheeler:
Oh definitely. Even to the point where we would go to see our therapist, our handlers would be on the stairs of the building which we would enter to see our therapist - to let us know that if we said anything that would bring down the family or to expose the family, that we would pay for it later. They would be waiting for us. In other words, have a good time, enjoy your therapist, but we will be here waiting when you get out. The torture that came - you had to face them every single time you went to see your therapist, you had to face knowing they could be around a corner, or even run you off the road on the way to the therapist. They may burn your house down, or they may put a bullet through one of your children's heads, or through your bedroom window, or they are going to get to you one way or the other. You have to work with threats, the lies. That was at the beginning of our therapy work. Just to get through the trauma of the threat would keep most people at home. But what it did for us and the other survivors is that we became so angry that we decided we were going to fight them, even until death, because it's not over until God says it's over. When He says it's over, that's fine, we are ready to go home. We are going to fight this. We are going to win.

Before when we were under mind control and the memories were taken from us, we didn't have a choice. We didn't have a say in what they did to us. But this time it is different. We have a say. We could walk into the therapist's office or we could choose not to. But to have the ability to say 'even until death I am going to go to therapy, I am going to continue this journey' there was a lot of strength that came with that, because every time we took a step in the right direction, it gave us the power that we needed.

Wayne Morris:
So you found a lot of strength in the anger.

Cisco Wheeler:
Even when they got a hold of us in the first five years of our therapy, and they did get a hold of us, and they did torture us, and they did apply electrical shock, they did drug us, and they did rape us, over and over, they continued these things the first five years. Even after the trauma, it was still worth it. Because it was the first time we knew we were human. We had been so dehumanized from the trauma of the mind control, that just to have a spark of humanism, to really have the reality, "I am not a kitten." "I am a child, I am a woman, I was once a little girl." "It was all lies." You are willing to die for the truth ...

Wayne Morris:
You mentioned about trauma bonding ... can you explain to our listeners what that is and what it meant for you in your case?

Cisco Wheeler:
For instance, Dr. Green. He used to put us in the hot cages in the desert there, they were sweat tanks. He would come out there, after we had no water and no food for a number of hours (it seemed like days to us). We were told it was days, but common sense tells us that it was hours. These cages were set up so we could see outside the cages (like animal cages). In my memory, off to the left me were other cages ... with small children 2, 3, 4 years old. Green would come out there and he would have a daisy in his hand and he would walk through this area where we were being held in these holding tanks, and he would walk up to me and he would say, "I love you, I love you not, I love you ..." If he said "I love you not" I knew I was in big trouble because he had already set a prior example to me by walking in front of the cage to my left, and he told the little girl that he loved her not when he reached the last petal of his daisy. At that point, she was taken out, and she was eliminated in front of me. In other words, her life was taken from her at that point, to show his power and his control, and what would happen if Dr. Green ceased to love you.

What I failed to understand as a child, with a child's mind, is that it was set up. The murder did take place but the thing is, these were what they called "expendable" children. As for me, I was Illuminati, so they weren't going to eliminate me because they had a reason for me, they had my life planned for me. Part of the grooming is to set the stage. The script was played out when Dr. Green eliminated the child in the cage. I was to see all this, because it was a power play. If that's love trauma bonding, "I love you Dr. Green, I love you very very much because you could have said you didn't love me and I would be dead". He did "love me" because he "spared my life" - but it also showed me the power that this man had. Try to translate that into a child's mind when they are only four or five years old.

Wayne Morris:
Do you feel that the unpredictability of the trauma was a factor in the trauma bonding?

Cisco Wheeler:
Definitely. You never knew when you were going to be loved and when you weren't going to be loved - at any point there could be a change of direction. When my father was kind as my programmer, he was very kind but when he was ruthless, he was ruthless to the core. There was no humanism. He became less than a wild animal himself, there was nothing he would not do to get his point across. We have parts of ourselves that love him dearly to this day, who will always love him, they look up to him.

Wayne Morris:
How many other children were involved in this, that you were aware of, at the time?

Cisco Wheeler:
I knew in 1968 that there were over 2 million MKULTRA's. Since then I don't have the awareness or the knowledge because I am not seeing the paperwork or the records to tell me how many. If I was making a guess, I would say 10 million.

Wayne Morris:
How did you know 2 million were involved?

Cisco Wheeler:
Because I was a programmer and I saw the documented records on this.

Wayne Morris:
So they have been able to program victims to program other victims ... how did they go about doing that?

Cisco Wheeler:
They train you on the job. You have to realize within the Illuminati structure there are many levels to the system. My mothers were trained in programming. That's at the Illuminati level.

Wayne Morris:
They trained you in programming techniques?

Cisco Wheeler:
Yes.

Wayne Morris:
What kind of people did they make you perform this kind of programming on? Were they other Illuminati family members?

Cisco Wheeler:
They were all Illuminati children. We did not work outside of the Illuminati structure.

Wayne Morris:
As an Illuminati family member, what did they have in mind for you, why did they want to program you?

Cisco Wheeler:
The sole purpose - at the deepest layer of the system - lies mothers. They are the foundation. You have three mothers who are on a pedestal - their sole purpose is to rule and reign with the antichrist as his queen when he takes his throne. As god has a bride, so lucifer has a bride, and that bride is the mothers of darkness. That is the bottom line.

Wayne Morris:
Who would be this antichrist figure? I have heard of the name, "Lord Maitreya." Is this one candidate?

Cisco Wheeler:
He is one of the forerunners, a disciple. You have to understand the luciferian belief system and the way that the structure within the Illuminati is laid out. It is laid out according to god's word - so that it can stand, or it can be blasphemous of who god is. But when god sent his son to the earth, christ had twelve disciples that followed him. The antichrist is going to be like three in one, and he will also have twelve forerunners. This is where Maitreya comes in. He is a forerunner. John the Baptist was a forerunner for christ.

Wayne Morris:
Do you have any information on how they are going to accomplish this?

Cisco Wheeler:
They have already accomplished it ... by taking our constitutional rights away from us ... by having a government within a government, like a box within a box. By creating famines, by having wars and rumours of wars, by the American people and the Canadian people no longer having the freedoms that once were theirs.

Wayne Morris:
In a global sense, how is this related to what is known as New World Order?

Cisco Wheeler:
The New World Order is a body of people within the Illuminati, thirteen major bloodlines that rule the world and they set the stage, they play out the script, and there will be a complete fulfillment of what they have staged for the American people, Canadians, and the world. There is no doubt about it.

Wayne Morris:
What kind of things do you expect will occur in the future that relate to this?

Cisco Wheeler:
I believe that the people in the world are going to wake up some day very soon and realize that the stock market has crashed, that financially the world has been crushed. They are going to realize that their food and grain has been contaminated, that their medical field has been dominated by the Illuminati medical force because the Illuminati has infiltrated every aspect of our lives. They are going to realize that we don't have the freedom to even speak for our children, that the government has more to say in regards to our children than we do, they can take them and control them at any given point. We are going to realize that the churches are not what they seem to have been - that the churches have been infiltrated. There is nothing left. There is nothing that has not been touched by the Illuminati and its family.

Wayne Morris:
Is there a time when this is going to be implemented in terms of a one world, military government?

Cisco Wheeler:
Definitely. I expect 1998 to be a year of turmoil as far as people coming to terms with the knowledge that the government is not what they thought it was, the church is not what they thought it was, people they have looked up to are not who they thought they were.

Wayne Morris:
What kinds of things do you believe these power groups who belong to the Illuminati will try and implement in terms of controlling people's anger and responses to what they've got planned? What is their retaliation?

Cisco Wheeler:
To eliminate the people as a whole - anyone who doesn't come under submission of the New World Order will be eliminated.

Wayne Morris:
Do you think they will use the mind controlled victims to implement that?

Cisco Wheeler:
Most definitely.

Wayne Morris:
How do you think that is going to come about?

Cisco Wheeler:
They can use any slave that has been under mind control to accomplish any goal they have set forth with an access code, they can blow up a bridge, they can assassinate any leader - a governor, mayor, pastor - anyone that gets in the Illuminati's path, who will not bend or bow to the Illuminati structure - they have slaves in force who will just go and eliminate them. Whatever is needed, it is there. I guarantee you it is there.

Wayne Morris:
There have been quite a number of survivors of mind control talking about end-times programming where they know they are going to be triggered to do something. Is this related to that?

Cisco Wheeler:
Yes it is. Most definitely is. There is a clock ticking and it is going to strike midnight soon, and when it does, all hell is going to break loose within the world.

Wayne Morris:
Do you have an idea of a date?

Cisco Wheeler:
I do not give dates. I am not God and things can always change. The timetables can change because of circumstances surrounding what they are trying to accomplish. It can either rapidly speed up or time can stand still because everything has to work like a ticking clock - everything has to be in its place in order for the New World Order to come about. Everything has to be in its place.

Wayne Morris:
What do you think people can do out there to try to stop this or to prepare themselves for this?

Cisco Wheeler:
I believe that people need to understand there is a time to weep, and there is a time for war, every man and every woman should have the insight or the foreknowledge within themselves the answer to themselves. When they look around, if they are honest with themselves, they can see that the world is falling apart at its seams, something big is coming down, they need to look at themselves. Listen to themselves. Look and see and hear what is happening around them, and they need to start preparing themselves for the worst because the worst is coming. They need to be in a place, and in a state of mind that when the military soldiers are knocking at their doors and come after their children to take them down, that they say "not me, not me, not me and my house." We are in a fight. There is a time to fight.

Wayne Morris:
Part of your strength, as you said, has been from your anger in terms of trying to expose what they have been doing. What have you been doing since breaking free to a certain degree in terms of exposing what they have been doing? How have you been getting the word out to the public?

Cisco Wheeler:
I have co-authored three books with Fritz Springmeier, and in co-authoring these books we have taken our internal information and our knowledge that we have had because of our own experiences in the Illuminati and we have put it to the page. In other words, we have written it. Because we are a programmer, we understand the inside and the heartbeat of lucifer himself, because mind control and the Illuminati are nothing more than the heartbeat of satan himself, to bring down God's people, the world as a whole.

Wayne Morris:
What more do you think needs to happen in terms of exposing this to the general public?

Cisco Wheeler:
I believe that to understand what is going on within the heartbeat of the Illuminati, that you need to understand what the Illuminati are -- who they are, what they are, and what they have done. To understand something you need to have foresight -- without foresight you are walking in the dark and you are going to think you know but you really do not know until you come in contact with it -- even if it is through the pages of the written word. It's out there -- it's written. Whether it's me or Fritz or someone else, there is written material on mind control and people need to know what's been done. If they don't know what's been done to them, they are never going to know what can be done again to their families and their families, and their children.

Wayne Morris:
So what elements in terms of the Illuminati's belief systems and what they have been doing -- what elements are essential for people to understand?

Cisco Wheeler:
They need to understand that the Illuminati are satanists and that there isn't anything they will not do. They are gods unto themselves. They think they are gods and they are only serving lucifer. They have taken oaths to lucifer to serve him as their prince, as the father of light. They have taken blood oaths in order to see this, to see it done, to see the fulfillment of the end-time, to see the antichrist take his throne. They have done this for centuries.

Wayne Morris:
Do you think it is important that the general public understands the mind control aspects of this and how they have accomplished mind control?

Cisco Wheeler:
Most definitely. If they don't understand mind control, they are not going to understand what's happening in their backyard or in their schools or in their churches or in politics. They need to understand how they have been totally controlled from the cradle themselves -- that most everything they have been told is a lie.

Wayne Morris:
How important in terms of the Illuminati's bloodline is mind control on their own family members? What part does that play in promoting their goals?

Cisco Wheeler:
The Illuminati are very loyal unto themselves. They are gods. They see themselves as gods, and they stay within the Illuminati structure, within the royal bloodlines, within the thirteen ruling families. If you are not generational, you are not going to get into the Illuminati because this is passed from generation to generation from son to daughter to daughter to son, to father ... it touches everyone within the family for generations. This isn't something that just happened.

Wayne Morris:
It seems to be something more than just normal family allegiances at work here in that they have traumatized and mind controlled their own family members. I sense that has been an important part of perpetuating their end goals?

Cisco Wheeler:
That's true, because their allegiance is unto lucifer who I now will call him satan, that's who he is. They believe in the doctrinism of satanism that if they rule as gods and they are obedient to the call which is lucifer's call upon their life because they made blood oaths with him, then they will rule and reign with him in hell. They don't fear hell. They have no fear of hell. They only believe if they do what satan asks them to do, which he does tell them what to do, that they will stand as gods with him in hell and they will rule the people in hell. They will become gods with him. That is the big lie. They believe this. What can I say? That is the bottom line of the doctrine. They believe they will be gods in hell. And they all want to be gods because they see themselves as gods. As a god, they come under no authority except lucifer's authority. Lucifer does their bidding for them. He tells them exactly what to do, what he wants, and they will do it.

Wayne Morris:
Do you think this is driven by just the drive for power and the seduction of power? Is this what is underlying their motivation?

Cisco Wheeler:
It has to do with money, honour, power and glory -- it has to do with demonic entities -- with generational spirits.

Wayne Morris:
So they have aligned themselves with ...

Cisco Wheeler:
With lucifer and his demonic entities, yes, they are very demon possessed.

Wayne Morris:
Both you and Fritz have been helping other victims of this trauma-based mind control. How has the understanding of the programming techniques helped you help others?

Cisco Wheeler:
I have been able to help other victims of trauma-based mind control as I have made myself available to counsel without any charge. Also I have had -- because I have co-authored books with Fritz -- I have the information out there and they are wanting to talk to me about some of the material that has been written in the books because many of them have been facing the same issues and the same problems. Sometimes they just need a listening ear. Also in working with victims of mind control I can understand them in the complexity of who they are and for what has been done to them, without being judgmental. When they tell me they are MKULTRA and Dr. Green or Dr. Black or Dr. Blue or Dr. Star has programmed them and they have memories of this, immediately my heart becomes one with them because I have been there. I have walked in their shoes, and I know what they are going through. I want to hear what they have to say, and I care what has happened to them. I care. I see their journey -- not that I take on their journey -- but I see their journey and whatever I might say may give them the strength they need to continue to go towards health, and that's very important to me.

Wayne Morris:
I am wondering when you are working with other victims, has the act of remembering the trauma of their conditioning, does that help to disable the programming or conditioning?

Cisco Wheeler:
When someone else can walk where you have walked, or say yes, I do acknowledge that -- it's confirmation. We need confirmation. Because the atrocities that have been done to us in order to enslave us to the degree in which we were enslaved under total mind control that we didn't even know we were alive and well on planet earth without permission - you know what I'm saying?

When someone calls me and says "I remember such and such" and I'll say, "you're right on track -- your mind never lied to you -- I can confirm what you are saying -- these things did happen and yes, I am very familiar with this program." I will not tell them about the program because that's very dangerous to do so, but I will let them tell me what they know. Then I will give them the confirmation as to where they are.

Wayne Morris:
What other kinds of things can be done for victims in terms of their own healing and memory work? What else do you recommend for them?

Cisco Wheeler:
I think one of the most important things to remember is that we were all slaves. We were ruled and controlled by the harshest hand of mastery. We were controlled by very sadistic individuals and we were terribly, terribly treated. You wouldn't treat an animal the way we were treated. You wouldn't -- it's important to be sensitive to that because it's very painful. The body has felt raped, the mind has felt raped, the spirit has felt raped. And we need someone to say this really hurts and we need to have someone to say "you know I didn't walk where you have walked and so I can't totally comprehend what you are saying to me, but I am listening, and I truly believe what happened to you did happen to you." Because we have been so programmed to believe that if we tell the world that the world will call us a liar and they will stand us up and either shoot us or put us in prison for the crimes that have been done or that no one is going to believe the atrocities anyway. Did anyone believe about the Holocaust? The world didn't want to hear about the Holocaust. They didn't believe it. It's been how many years -- and people still don't want to believe that the Holocaust really did happen. And what happened to us is no less than what happened in the concentration camps.

Wayne Morris:
Do you feel that they have done particular types of trauma and conditioning that would set you up to be disbelieved by the public?

Cisco Wheeler:
Oh definitely. When someone like myself or Mr. Springmeier start telling you things about ritual abuse and satanic holidays and yes, they do this, and they do a,b,c and d, the mind goes "Uh, uh. I am going to shut down, you just hit a block here, I don't want to hear it." To hear it means that everything you have been told in your life all of a sudden is a lie. These things do happen. We are programmed within the story lines of fairy tales, etc. and that helps us.

Wayne Morris:
I talked about this with Fritz about how certain cultural - stories, movies, books are used ... Wizard of Oz ...

Cisco Wheeler:
Alice in Wonderland, make believe ...

Wayne Morris:
So this is done for a couple of purposes, both because of the prevalence of this type of material out in our 'cultural' world -- this reinforces the programming.

Cisco Wheeler:
And even if you haven't had the trauma-based mind control, you are still in a world of make believe because you are conditioned to a world of make believe through the fairy tales. There isn't any reality here, but the mind always wants to go back where it is safe.

Wayne Morris:
It seems like some of these programmers also have done things deliberately to discredit any accounts coming -- afterwards -- in terms of the victims, like them dressing up like Santa Claus -- just being ridiculous ...

Cisco Wheeler:
They do that so it invalidates you -- there are certain programs that if you remember this or that -- and I don't want to say it over the phone because I certainly don't want to be responsible for triggering someone out there -- but if you remember certain informatiion you immediately go into an insanity mode. These insanity modes are put in at a very deep level with hypnosis and drugs, and when you hit one, if you don't have a support team that you need, you will go insane. And you will end up in a mental institution. Who wants to believe someone that spent the last six months in a mental institution?

Wayne Morris:
In a general sense, I wonder if you can give some information to our listeners to sensitize them as to what kinds of things were done, what kind of techniques were used for the purposes of mind control? You mentioned hypnosis and drugs, trauma ..

Cisco Wheeler:
Yes, and electrical shock. I always speak for myself, and I go back to eighteen months when they wanted to make sure they splintered my mind. My father was my primary programmer, but he was also my father and when I was born I was isolated with my father in a small room within the environment of our own home, where my father became my primary care provider. I looked up to my father. By the time I was 18 months, because my father was a programmer, he could control my liver, my kidneys, my heart rate, my pulse, my respiration.

Wayne Morris:
How did he accomplish that?

Cisco Wheeler:
Through hypnosis -- I was so trauma-bonded to him. My survival depended totally on him. I was not exposed to the outside world. He was my handler, in every sense of the word. He fed me, he bathed me. I also was a premature birth which was very important because I was a very weak child when I was born. I weighed 2 lb. 1 oz. and he conditioned me through his voice - he always told me he could control me. He loved me to the point that, even in my infancy, as a newborn child, I was totally dependent on him for my life.

When I was 18 months old I was taken from him which was a shock for me because I had never been separated from him, and my first trauma came when I was raped by him. When he finished raping me I had to have reconstructive surgery done to repair the damage. That was the trauma that splintered my mind into a million pieces. I shouldn't say "million", it feels like a million to me -- rather thousands of pieces.

Wayne Morris:
What kind of things were you conditioned to do -- you mentioned sexual slavery -- what other jobs or operations were you programmed to do?

Cisco Wheeler:
I have Beta and Delta alters which are espionage alters -- they specialized in martial arts. They were alters that were used for blackmail of politicians, ministers, anyone that needed to be blackmailed in order to bring them under the subission of the Illuminati.

Wayne Morris:
How would this blackmail occur?

Cisco Wheeler:
Usually through a sexual act. Usually there would be a stage where they would have sex with a certain person and that person, during the sex act, would be traumatized to such a point that the person died and they would be blackmailed that they committed murder, when in fact they didn't. There are many different ways to set up blackmail. It would be recorded and that would be the sex slave's responsibility to do that, and to set that individual up.

Wayne Morris:
Who would be the people behind the blackmail?

Cisco Wheeler:
The Illuminati, the family, who wanted that person under their submission, under their rule, from that day forward. Deltas were assassination alters for anyone who doesn't want to follow the orders of the Illuminati -- anyone who wants to feel like they are bigger or better or stronger or more powerful, and can step outside the authority of the Illuminati and live -- will be eliminated. We also laundered drug money. But you need to understand that these particular alters don't live in the outside world, they live within the mind, within the construct of the mind. When they are needed, they are accessed through a specific code, they are brought up to awareness, to the front of the mind. They are then given the program as to where they are to be, what they are supposed to do, and then after they have done the job they are immediately traumatized again through electrical shock. That memory is shattered again in the mind and then they are put to sleep until the next time. They have no awareness of what's going on in the outside world, or that there is even another world except for the world they are programmed to function in.

Wayne Morris:
The electroshock served to wipe out the memory of the operation?

Cisco Wheeler:
As long as you do it within 48 hours.

Wayne Morris:
You and Fritz have been going public with this information. I understand you have been doing a number of radio shows, you have written books and people have contacted you about that. What kind of response have you gotten from the public with the information you are presenting?

Cisco Wheeler:
We have had very positive response from a lot of therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, ministers, people within our own government. We were just told several weeks ago that there are two congressmen who are reading the books and they are pleased with what has been written, because they know what we have written is factual and they are glad that it is getting out to the public. We have had people say that next to God's word, this book should be in every home, on every shelf, in every library ... Of course it has shattered a lot of their dreams and foundational structuring they have had within their own environment whether that is home or school or church, because things aren't as they seem. People who are truth-seekers are willing to pay that price because that may be the only way they can save themselves and their children.

Wayne Morris:
So some of the professionals who have come across your information have dealt with these issues in their own work ...

Cisco Wheeler:
Oh most definitely. My work has been confirmed by a number of professionals, and they say it's right on. Some of them have worked with multiples for twenty or twenty-five years, and they have confirmed my work.

Wayne Morris:
And what generally is the response from people who have not been exposed to this, just the general public?

Cisco Wheeler:
It's like a culture shock. If you can imagine going into Japan and not being able to speak Japanese - you wouldn't even know how to get a cup of coffee if you wanted one.

Wayne Morris:
And it must be even more of a shock because it's own culture they are confronting.

Cisco Wheeler:
It severs the traditional lies because if you are going to work in truth and you are going to have integrity then you have to see what is in front of you. Our book certainly puts on a light on the darkness so you can see what has happened to you. It's not only multiples who are programmed - the world is programmed. We are programmed to believe our presidents are men of honour, men of great integrity. Our presidents are rotten bastards - they are pedophiles, they are drug addicts, they practise high magic, they practise ritual. They think nothing of live sacrifice of small children. They think nothing of having their own slaves available to them. That's the way it is, that's the truth.

Wayne Morris:
In terms of the books you've written - how much have they gotten out to the public - is it yourselves who are distributing them or do you have distributors?

Cisco Wheeler:
We are self published. If we had a publishing company distributing them, the Illuminati would buy them all up and have the right to them, and we would lose our books.

Wayne Morris:
They would just disappear ...

Cisco Wheeler:
They would just disappear. We can't risk that.

Wayne Morris:
I also wanted to ask you - are you aware of your father's connection to any of the people involved in the CIA MKULTRA projects?

Cisco Wheeler:
Definitely. He was Dr. Green's left hand man. Dr. Green trained him. Also, Dr. Star, Dr. Blue, Dr. White ... these are alibi names. I know their real names but for the sake of survivors who might be listening, I prefer not to trigger them. That would be a very dangerous thing for me to do.

Wayne Morris:
What more do you think the public can do to help victims of mind control? What can the average person do to help?

Cisco Wheeler:
The average person can be a support person, they can contact ministers who are working with MKULTRA mind control survivors, they can contact therapists and say 'I've learned about MKULTRA, about mind control - I'm just beginning to have a picture of what has happened to these individuals who have been traumatized from their birth'. Ask 'how can I help you?' Can I work with you as a therapist, as a minister, as a layman - can I work with you to understand what mind control is? And as I grow and as I understand this subject at a deeper level, then can I reach out and be that hand extended to a survivor out there? Can I be there when they have ritual holidays that are approaching, when their mind wants to have flashbacks as to what happened to them during those ritual holidays? Can I be there to help that individual who can't get out of their house because they are so trauma-bound at this time because they are working on programs or they are fearful for their life and they won't even go to the grocery store because they are terrified? Can I be there to wash that dish because that survivor may not have the strength because she or he is working on their issues, and they are too weak to even do dishes. Can I be there to sit in the middle of the night listening to you because you are in so much pain from what you remembered? Can I be there at night to hold your hand? Can I be there to support you? Those are the little things that give stability to continue because you have to understand, as a survivor, in order to go towards health, everything that was done to us, in order to come out of this healthy, we have to re-live every trauma that was ever done to us. We have to know it with the full impact of our emotions, every sense of ourselves with these five senses that God gave us. We have to see it, smell it, touch it, hear it, feel it.

Wayne Morris:
It's just so difficult for people to understand what you have to go through.

Cisco Wheeler:
I can speak for myself and only for myself because I have experienced it - some of the memories I have had to go through in order to go towards health - as I was going through the memory I would lose control of the process which I needed to work. There's a certain process in retrieving memories that you need to focus on that - there are certain things that you need to do to keep the memory intact, so that the mind doesn't re-splinter itself. If the memory of what was done to you is so powerful that it splintered your mind when you were traumatized. Every memory we have re-traumatizes us. It's a process - it's something you have to learn, over and over again - because every memory has a different feeling. Every memory has a different purpose behind it.

So those who want to be there to help need to learn about mind control. There are many people out there who are working with survivors and they need a break too. They need to have a few days off once in a while, and they need to be able to have a good night's sleep. They need to know that if they want to go and do something special for themselves, that the survivor they are leaving is not going to be harassed all night or is not going to be contacted or is not going to walk out of that house and walk into a trap where they will be re-programmed or tortured. Because the Illuminati is just waiting for a slave to make a mistake and walk out of her house and meet their handlers. All programmed slaves have handlers, and they are just waiting for us. They answer to the Illuminati and their job is to make sure they punish us for what we have done, and that is that we have spoken against the family, we have seen what has been done to us, and we have not held our tongues, we have told, we have talked. And there is a great punishment that comes with that.

Wayne Morris:
For people listening who feel they may have been influenced by this kind of stuff, or know of people, what is your advice for them?

Cisco Wheeler:
I would advise them to seek out a therapist who has had training, at least five years of training, with MPD or DID victims. Who truly understand and believe that ritual abuse does exist on the planet earth. If you are trying to work with someone who doesn't even believe that satanic ritual abuse exists, you are wasting your time. If you are trying to work with someone who doesn't understand DID or MPD, you are also wasting your time because we have no time to play, our minds won't allow us to, there is no playfield here. This is a life and death issue. If you are not in the right setting and working with the right person, they could cost you your life. There is a very high percentage of suicides in recovery for victims of ritual abuse.

Wayne Morris:
In your experience Cisco - how important was it having a strong support system to be able to heal?

Cisco Wheeler:
On a one to ten scale - it's the top ten. Without a support system, you might as well forget it in my opinion. I was one of the more fortunate ones in my healing process - I had Fritz Springmeier who was my support team for many, many months and even into years he was there for me, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, day in and day out.

Therapists have this idea that - and I have heard top therapists say that it's all right to work with a survivor - I prefer to use the word "victim" because we are continually victimized, internally and externally. They say, "well we can spend the one or two hours a week with them and if they get picked up by their handler, that's okay, because we have still made progress." I just about died when I heard this the first time. I thought, man, if you were the one who was picked up by one of your handlers and you were raped, or you were gun-raped, or you were bruised as bad as what I have been bruised, internally and externally, you wouldn't be saying this. When they victimize you and they traumatize you and they de-program you, only the front part of the system is told to tell their therapist they are doing very well. The programs are so intact, and we are so fine-tuned that parts of yourself can be dying internally but part of the system will go to work every day never knowing anything ever happened. It's pathetic. What people do not understand is how severe the trauma is when your handlers get a hold of you and what you could even do to yourself if you don't have someone there. When those programs go off they are hot - they are hot as they were the day they were put in - whether that was twenty years or thirty years ago, it doesn't make any difference - they are red-hot - and when I wanted to cut I wanted to cut myself - when I wanted to burn - I would burn myself. There were times when I had to literally be held down because I couldn't help myself because the programs were so powerful. Therapists don't understand, neither do people understand the depth of the programming - to what extreme they went to ensure everything they did to us would stay intact to be obedient to the laws that govern the Illuminati.

Wayne Morris:
So part of the role of your support team is in helping limit being re-accessed by your programmers?

Cisco Wheeler:
Oh yeah. And it takes a special individual like Fritz - I can only speak for myself because I don't know anyone else who has been as fortunate as I was to have a support person who stayed with me during those hard times. He stayed with me when it wasn't so hard, because there are lot of days that are good, days that are bad. Where we got into trouble - our front system is extremely powerful - very high functioning. They swore up and down that they weren't being contacted, threatened, no harm had come to them in twenty years as far as they knew. That was their information. It doesn't work that way because you have amnesia walls, you are not supposed to know. They go deep, deep into the system. I know the front part of myself - the alters within the front part of my own mind - they made contracts with their therapist, with Fritz, with God - there were certain things they wouldn't do. There were boundaries they wouldn't cross - no, they wouldn't leave the house at 1 a.m. Well, you have sleep triggers and so forth during certain ritual holidays. The minute that front system lays down, there are deep parts that are ready and willing to go. The alters in the front of the mind go to sleep, the other alters slip out. The front alters think they slept all night. Well, we have been playing all night. You know what I am saying?

Wayne Morris:
It must be devastating to realize they have affected you at such a deep level.

Cisco Wheeler:
You cannot make contracts for the deeper parts of the mind because the mind doesn't even know what's going on within the front system, nor are they going to make it a commitment, because they are 100% programmed. They are going to do what they are told to do because they know nothing else. They only know the scripts which are running within their own mind.

Wayne Morris:
I think it's a testament to your courage and strength to be able to have broken the control as much as you have, and to have gone through and dealt with what you have, and I think that sends out a hopeful message to other mind control victims out there.

Cisco Wheeler:
There is lots of hope out there for mind control victims if they have a very strong support system. Like with Fritz - he stayed with me 24 hours a day, and when it was bad, when I would go into memory and be triggered by something and programs would kick in - he was there to support me - to help me talk it through. And he taught me how to run the two tracks. One track I acknowledge as the program track and the other track is the de-program track so that I could balance myself out and get back on my feet. You can stay within a program for days if you don't have someone to teach you how to free yourself up from the old messages.

Wayne Morris:
Can you explain how that worked? How you thought about the two tracks in terms of your breaking control?

Cisco Wheeler:
In my mind, I have the first track set up as: I wanted my life to be new - I made a commitment that I wanted a change of direction - I did not want to be what I was - I did not want to function in the degree in which I functioned working within the Illuminati. I wanted nothing to do with it. I wanted to wash my hands of it and walk away from it. I was very upset at what had been done to me, that my choices as an individual had been taken away from me from infancy. I totally had to acknowledge that I was under slavery. I didn't like it, and my choice was 'I'm out of here - I am going to find a way to get out of here if it's the last thing I do - I would rather be dead than to serve them." And I still feel that way and it's been several years. I still feel very strongly that I would rather be dead than to serve them. I had to come to terms with the fact that I had to find a new way to function. Okay - I have a new track here and on that track I am going to go right across it in an unprogrammed state. You have to see the power, or realize in your mind how good it feels to be able to have a choice that you can make freely because that's what they have taken away from you.

If you are a child and you have learned to walk and you go outside and get hit by a car, and your legs are crushed, and you have to be in a cast for months and months and you have to re-walk when those casts are taken off -- as a survivor I have learned to walk. I had to learn to crawl, I had to learn to walk, now I can run, it's a process.

I also know that I have a second track which is the old messages put in by the programmers which lead me in a state of total 100% mind control, under the influence of the old script, the old programs. I know when I am in that state, I am in a dangerous state. That's when I would cut myself, run away, didn't want to live, all the negatives in life. When the programs kick in from the subconscious to conscious awareness, the memories trigger the programs, they reveal themselves with the full impact of the trauma when they layered it into our minds so many years ago.

Cisco Wheeler:
In deprogramming we have to unravel the programming script and find the lie. When you find the lie then you can put the light on it and the lie loses its power. That's where the miracle is. Your programs are lies. That's all they are. Was I an ugly little girl? No. I wasn't. Children aren't ugly. Children are beautiful. I found the lie. They lied to me. Did anybody ever love me? As far as the cult was concerned no one could ever love me except the family because I was unlovable. Because of the crimes that were done to me, they put the guilt and the responsibility on me instead of taking the responsibility for their own acts as adults. They gave me the responsibility and I wore the coat of many colours. I had to weave a new coat and that's where the two tracks help.

Wayne Morris:
It seems that they have been able to continue doing these horrific acts against other people by not taking responsibility or not taking blame for their own actions and externalizing that.

Cisco Wheeler:
I believe that for every survivor out there - when you were programmed in the womb and you were 100% under their control - when they tell you to cry, you cry. When they tell you to scream, you scream. When they tell you to eat, you eat. Every facet of your life is totally controlled by them. When Fritz found a part in my system, and he told me I was a little girl, I just looked at him and told him, "you're crazy, I am not a little girl, I am a kitten." I looked in the mirror and I had a porcelain face and on that a face is a kitten and that's how they programmed me. They had so dehumanized me as a sex kitten that I didn't even know I was a child. When I went through the memories so I could have an identity for myself, I realized that to be a little girl was the most painful thing in the whole world, because every time I was human in any sense of the word, or I thought I had any humanism as far as being a little girl, I was so severely tortured that I reached a place in my own mind that I never wanted to be a little girl. It was too painful to be a little girl.

They set up two cages for us - one cage was full of nice, beautiful little kittens - white, calico, black, persian gray. I was in the cage next to them with a pan that was hooked to electrical current. Every time I wanted water or to eat something, and I touched that pan, I was shocked. That's just one little example. I was shamed, I was spit on, totally humiliated in that cage for being a little girl. The Illuminati, Dr. Green, my father, made sure that the kittens were fed whatever they wanted to eat. They were loved, petted, cooed at - just loved - for a number of days. After all the trauma I had gone through, I guess my little mind decided not to be the little girl, but to be a kitten. The kittens get to eat, are not lying in their feces naked, they are not being shamed, spit on, kicked. When I had memories of this, my body was so bruised from the kicks I had received from the Illuminati family in the programming that I had to wear the bruises on my body until I worked through the memory. That just gives you a little example of how far they go to make sure they get what they want.

Wayne Morris:
Extremely sadistic.

Cisco Wheeler:
I haven't thought about it in about three years, but these little kittens are very powerful in my mind today as I am talking on the phone. I see these kittens, and how well they were treated. My father totally rejected me at that point. I loved my father very much because I was conditioned to do so. I loved him in his gentleness, and in his weakness and his strength, and when he was bad. It didn't matter because the mind was set up to accept whatever he was.

Wayne Morris:
Do you feel your father was also a victim of programming?

Cisco Wheeler:
I have no doubt in my mind that my father was a multiple. My father was a genius at every level, but he had a gentle side, he was a musician as well as satanist. Like I said, he worked for the CIA, he was a 33rd degree Mason plus - there are many levels beyond 33 by the way. He was a Grand Master. He sat on the Grand Druid Council. He was a very wise man, just not wise in the right things. It's too bad that his learning hadn't been applied in other directions - he would have gone far. I can't respect my father for who he is.

Wayne Morris:
Do you think he had a choice in the matter?

Cisco Wheeler:
No. I don't because it was generational. He was trapped as I was trapped. But the difference between me and my father is that there was a part of my father that knew, even when the good side of my father that loved his family, worked in the workplace, was in the military -- there is a real positive part about my father. He was a people lover, he loved people and people loved him. But I think there was a time in my father's life when he realized what he was and what he was doing, I think the barriers within his own mind, within his own multiplicity, had broken down to the point that he knew, but he also knew he was in over his head. It would cost him his life to move away or to change directions. He was too far in.

Wayne Morris:
Then obviously the difference being that you chose, you made the choice to break away and to fight that.

Cisco Wheeler:
Right. And there is a wilful act within the family, the Illuminati family, there is a wilful act there. And I can honestly say the things we did, we did because we were groomed. We were programmed to do so, but when the light was put on, and we did the memory work, and we had a free choice to say "do we or don't we?" our system didn't want to. We wanted to do right, we wanted that hope, that chance to be what we really wanted to be that was born into us, and that was to be good. That's the simplest way to say it. I still feel very childish, I feel like a child that wants to be good. I don't want to be bad. I don't like what was done to me and I don't like what has been done to others. It's been totally unfair. It has destroyed many, many lives. The one thing that I wanted to say is that when I first came out of the system and Fritz was working with me on a daily basis, I asked him, "these children in the world? do their fathers rape them?" He said, "no, good fathers do not rape their children." It threw me for a loop, and I stood there and I looked at him and said, "I really feel sorry for these children in this world because they are not loved." He said, "oh but they are loved" and I said, "oh no - if the fathers aren't raping their children, then they are not loved." I thought rape was love. That's pretty sick.

Wayne Morris:
They just turned those ideas upside down.

Cisco Wheeler:
The first time I had ever had a tear in my eye was when he told me that little girls and little boys aren't normally raped by their fathers, that is not the standard of living in which we live. And that upset me to such a point - that was the first time I ever felt a tear on my face. Because I really felt so bad that children were not being loved by their fathers. And it took me a long time to understand the difference, because right is wrong, and wrong is right, that's how you are programmed. Isn't it something, when you really think about it? I look back on it now, and I cannot believe the ability they had to do to my mind and so many other survivors out there. To what degree they would go.

Wayne Morris:
Especially to children.

Cisco Wheeler:
At Inucurran (sp) they had cages on the walls. They put us in the cages and the monkeys or the apes got to take care of us. We had three of them. One fed us, one beat us, and one raped us to dehumanize us.

Wayne Morris:
... God ... oh boy ...

Cisco Wheeler:
I still wake up and here I am in my fifties and when I was working on my memories at Inucurran (sp) in the cages -- well see, whatever they want in the system -- if they want a particular part in the mind to be a particular something they had to set the stage for that to come about.

Wayne Morris:
So that they are manipulating a particular context to achieve a certain end ...

Cisco Wheeler:
Yes, a certain image within the mind. A child has creativity but they have to give us the creativity from which to work from because you have to understand that the mind is protected by the family in that it is hidden within itself, like a box within itself -- boxes and boxes, many boxes and each box has a family within the mind or it's all set up like a grid. A 13x13 grid and 13 deep, so your hidden parts get no influence from or to the outside world. When I came out into the world and I met Fritz, I had never known what the world was. I had the freedom of knowing how to go to the grocery store or where was it or what was it. I didn't know because I was only programmed to do what they wanted me to. They would wake me up, give me my programs, put me on the right track as to where they wanted me to be. I would go do what they wanted me to do, as soon as I did it, back to sleep I went. I had no influence.

When Fritz told me that I had a family and a mother that was still living I thought the man was crazy. Here's something else that will just throw you for a loop -- I have seven grandchildren, that means I have three children of my own that are grown. When he introduced me to my son when he was thirty (he's a pilot) out of courtesy I just said, well it's very nice to meet you in my mind. Afterwards I told Fritz, you are absolutely crazy. You think I'm crazy -- you guys, you've had it. You're telling me I am programmed as a kitten, a sex kitten, and when I look in the mirror I see a porcelain face, a kitten's face, and I am 17 years old and I am not supposed to age. When you look at me and I am fifty years old, and you look at me and take a picture of me I am 17. I still look 17, but the point is I was so totally 100% programmed that when Fritz wanted to give me the truth about what happened to my life, my mind couldn't even receive it because I had so much programming. It took me two years to realize I wasn't a kitten before I believed him. Two years of hard work every single day to break down the lies. That's how strong my defence was. I looked at all these kids and this is what I said to Fritz: "Fritz you are absolutely crazy. You expect me to believe that this is my son. You are telling me that my son is thirty years old. I have no recall. I didn't carry him." I didn't remember him when he played as a child. I had no identity with this child whatsoever, that's how dark it was inside my world. I said, "He's thirty years old, and I am seventeen -- wait a minute here Fritz, something doesn't add up. You're crazy. You expect me to bite that apple? And I'm going to bite it and I'm going to believe this, right?" That's the way the mind is. That's just one example. He introduced me to my mother, to my sisters. I had two sisters that I didn't know about.

Wayne Morris:
So as you went through your memory work did you regain those parts of your life in terms of knowing who your children were and ...

Cisco Wheeler:
I have had to build relationships. As I was able to get stronger and work on the memories -- first I had to acknowledge the lie -- that is, that my father liked me. That was a very harsh lie for me. I could not believe that my father had ever lied to me, not my father. I cannot express how hard it was for me to acknowledge that my father lied to me. Because if I accepted the first lie, then I had to accept all the other lies. I didn't want to. I did not want my father defaced. As time went on, months went on, then I had to face what he was and what he had done to others. If he did this to me and I was his child, oh my God, what has he done to so many other children being a programmer? And that just about killed me.

Wayne Morris:
Again, that must have been devastating to you.

I would like to thank you very much Cisco for joining us on this show. I know it's very difficult to talk about these issues, and I really admire your enormous courage in exposing this.

Cisco Wheeler:
Thank you very much, thank you for asking.